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Speaker 1 (00:00:07):

You're listening to the journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warwick is a horseman trainer,

international clinician and author, whose mission is to help people achieve a deeper connection with

their horses through his transformational training program.

Warwick Schiller (00:00:36):

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Journey On podcast. I'm your host Warwick Schiller. And on this

week's episode of the podcast, I talk to Shea Stewart and chaise Jewett is a craniosacral therapist for

horses. You know, if you know her name's floated around quite a bit. She used to live in the area where I

live, but she now lives in Texas and her names. I've seen her name floating around the internet quite a

bit. And so I thought she might be interesting to have on the podcast. And I had talked to her and I kind

of asked her to describe to me what chronic psych release and when she tried to describe it to me, I

came I came to understand that it's not her one of those manipulation type therapies, but there's you,

it's one of those things where the practitioner has to be really, really in touch with their own body to do

it.

Warwick Schiller (00:01:32):

And I'm going to read you a little bit off of her website that says, what is crony or psychotherapy. And

then we'll talk about that a little bit before we get her on, but it says craniosacral therapy is a

complimentary and alternative health care that focuses on disorders of the musculus musculoskeletal

system, the nervous system, the deep fluid body and the effect of the disorders on general health

craniocervical care addresses the bones in the skull, the soft tissues and the scale, and the relationship

with the sacrum through the dura of the spine by dynamics. Craniosacral goes deeper into the fluid

matrix, following rhythms, deep within the system that nourishes the nervous system, the fascia

systems, and connects our body originating from early embryo illogical stages at therapeutic procedure

performed by therapist uses a sustained contact in a precise way to release compressions where the

plates in the skull join and release tightness in the soft tissue that surrounded these plates through

store, the fluidity that feeds the nervous system, biodynamic craniosacral dives, right into the fluids,

releasing old straining patterns that pull on facial system.

Warwick Schiller (00:02:41):

So there's fluid that she's talking about when I had a bit of a chat with her about what that is. It was one

of those things that was kind of hard for her to actually describe it to me in a and I, I realized that in

order to do this work, there's, I don't know if it's necessarily energy work, but it's in order to do this

work at that level, which is the biodynamic craniosacral level. You have to have a deep connection to

yourself. And so if you've listened to the, the Jim Masterson podcast, Jim Masterson of the Masterson

method, you know, I didn't really want to ask Jim necessarily about the Masterson method. What did I

want to ask Jim was what were your life experiences that brought you to being able to figure that stuff

out? And this conversation with Shea is very much along the same lines to where I'm really trying to

figure out how she got to the point in her life that she can do this, this work the way she does it. And I'm

so glad I poked and prodded and asked questions because I think her journey is one of the most, you

know, one of the most fascinating ones that I've, I've had the pleasure of, you know, dealing with so far

and there's been some pretty cool ones. So let's get a shy on here and listen to this conversation I had

with her. I'm sure you'll find that she's, you'll find she's as fascinating as I did

Warwick Schiller (00:04:19):

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Shea Stewart, welcome to the journey on podcast.

Shea Stewart (00:04:23):

Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

Warwick Schiller (00:04:26):

Yeah, this is this is tight too. So if you guys listening at home we recorded at least an hour yesterday, and

then I realized that something wasn't quite right. And if you guys have listened to the Rupert Isaacson

podcast and you would have heard the story about how we did the same, you know, I, I did the same

thing with Rupert and it messed up and Rupert made me aware of that shamanic energy can sometimes

interfere with electronics. And I really feel that's what was going on yesterday with, with Shai. So in the

introduction I read from your website and said what you've got on your website about what craniosacral

is and reading between the lines and that, I think there's a lot of, I don't know if you would call it energy

work, but there's, it's not just straight science, is it?

Shea Stewart (00:05:24):

No, it's, it's a blend of science what's inside our anatomy and what's out in the others, the other worlds.

Warwick Schiller (00:05:37):

It's the, yeah. It's yeah. Okay. So it sounds like in order to do it really well, like at the level that you do it

at that you would have to do online, let's say a lot of work on yourself, a lot of going down the rabbit

hole, so to speak.

Shea Stewart (00:06:00):

Yeah. A lot of you have to really know how to get still inside be in touch with the forces of nature that

surrounds us quiet your mind. That can be hard for people.

Warwick Schiller (00:06:27):

Yeah, that's hard. That's hard for a lot of people. And, and so I imagine, you know, if someone went, you

know what, I want to do this craniosacral stuff, it will be very, very difficult if you didn't have a path that

led up to that. And that's what I want to get into here. Cause that's this, it's all about the journey. I want

to talk about your path leading up to this. Cause like I said, you can't just be your average, Joe. Who's

never been self-reflected and go, Hey, I want to do this kind of cycle thing because you're, you're way

behind the eight ball. I would imagine that by the time a person is ready to start working on the crony

cycle stuff, there has been so many life experiences and so much stuff happened that it's probably not

easy, but it's, you know, it's doable. Whereas, you know, if you just said, I want to do this craniosacral

thing, you'd have to spend the next 10 years staring at your belly button for awhile before we could

actually contemplating your navel. Yeah. Yeah. So what can you tell us about I dunno, wait, where would

you say your journey to this thing started? Like, did you ever have a you know, like a moment to where

you kind of viewed the world differently than you'd been viewing it before?

Shea Stewart (00:07:48):

Yeah. Or I had a moment where I, I probably got better in touch with who I used to be. I guess it it's, it's

hard to know where to start. Probably the, so when I was about 20, 21 years old, I had actually gone and

gotten a craniosacral session. And this was back in the late eighties. So this was before massage was

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mainstream, like it is now. And I was having migraines and neck pain and my sister is, was at the time a

professional ballet dancer. And so she, I was telling her about problems I was having and she said,

you've got to go see this lady. So I went and I had no idea what to expect. I'd never had a massage. I'd

never had any kind of body work. And I go see this lady in Oakland and get on her table.

Shea Stewart (00:09:11):

And she just puts her hand it's like on my head. And all of a sudden I felt this floaty dreamlike state

coming on and it felt like she was tickling my bones. I don't know how to explain what I was feeling. I

didn't know what she was doing, but it, I felt really good. And afterwards I felt like a different person. I

felt like it's, it's like the, the sun was brighter. The color, the leaves on the trees had a more vibrant

shade to them. I could feel the cool air on my skin. And I felt completely tone of fide. And that's when I

realized how shut down I had been and I wanted to explore more of that. I wanted, I wanted to, I

wanted to be awakened. You know, I knew I felt a little dull. I realized I hadn't felt much emotion at all

for a long time.

Shea Stewart (00:10:36):

And it's like when one day after I started getting more cranial sacral sessions, one day I started crying

over something and I, it dawned on me, well, I hadn't, I have not cried since I was a kid. And so my body

was, had, had really been trapped in a trauma traumatic state from going through a pretty significant

trauma when I was 11. And that trauma was when my mother died. It was a very sudden accident. She

was jogging and got hit by a car. And when that happened I was in school and I was and band class and I

was, I had not, I didn't know what was going on. I was sitting there and that night I was supposed to go

to an amusement park with my friend who was sitting next to me. And all of a sudden I felt like

something was, something was terribly wrong and my chest got really tight and heavy.

Shea Stewart (00:12:01):

And I felt like a giant Boulder had just fallen out of the sky and landed on my chest and sent me into this

spirally whirlwind of like of disconnection. You know, I'm not grasping finding, trying to find ground.

And, and I, and I didn't understand why I felt like this or where it was coming from. And I think at one

point my friend even looked at me and said, are you okay? And I said, no, something's wrong.

Something, something, I don't have a feeling. We're not going to go to six flags tonight. That's all I could

think. You know, something just happened. And a little while later, some point, I don't know, towards

the end of class that they came and got me out of class, my dad had come to pick me up and then I

found out what happened.

Shea Stewart (00:13:00):

And at that age, you know, that's a pretty, that's a significant thing to go through and I didn't have any

coping skills for that. And that was before we had any kind of therapy while we might've, but I'm not

where I lived. And so that pretty much took me into a trauma state for a lot of years until that

craniosacral session. And I didn't even know it at the time that I was in a trauma and I was coming out of

it. All I knew was something shifted. And I felt like I wanted to discover a part of life that I'd been shut

down too. And yeah, that was,

Warwick Schiller (00:14:04):

So it sounds like you spent, you know, you were living, I think when your mom died 11. Yeah. And you

were about 21 when you had the craniosacral, so you kind of spent, excuse me, about 10 years of your

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life, not the experiencing basically the richness of life and probably not knowing that you were not

experiencing it.

Shea Stewart (00:14:27):

Correct? Yeah. I had no idea.

Warwick Schiller (00:14:28):

And the reason I'm correct is because I've been here most of my life like that. So yeah, that whole that

whole shutdown state it's, it's interesting because when you're in that state, at least for me, I don't want

to generalize here, but for me, when you're in that state, you don't know you're in that state. You know,

for me, I'd had for so long that I had nothing to compare it to. And, and yeah, here in the last few years

of, you know, with some therapy and stuff, I'd realized that I have had a form of depression for a long

time, but usually people identify that because, Oh, you know what, I feel different than I used to. And

maybe I'm feeling a bit down and I'm going to go see somebody. I didn't have that comparison. I didn't

have the memory of, cause I think it was actually, you know, I think I was that way from very, very

young.

Warwick Schiller (00:15:21):

So I had no memory of being any other way. So, you know, that was my, that was my normal. So it

wasn't like, you know, I, like I said, I think a lot of people might go and seek out some help because they

think they might be depressed because you know, all the senses have been delved from what they used

to be. But when you have nothing to compare it to when that's your normal, you really don't know. And

it sounds like you probably didn't have that recognition of, I used to, I used to feel different. I used to

feel,

Shea Stewart (00:15:51):

Yeah, it's that wasn't even in my mind, like it wasn't until I started going through this journey that I've,

that I realized how rich my childhood actually was. I was a very sensitive kid and very shy. And it was

really hard for me to even, to be around other kids. I fell that I found them loud and destructive and I

just preferred being with my animals, my horses out by myself. And when I was a little kid, my mother's

friends used to come over and say, I thought you had a little kid. I thought you had a little girl because

you know, it'd be off quiet somewhere in the backyard playing in the grass or something. So,

Warwick Schiller (00:16:56):

You know, I think it's, I think the, whether it's horses or people, I think it's the really sensitive ones that

are the ones that shut down. You know, when you, when you're further on the, on the scale of

sensitivity, because, you know, shut down is on the other side of fight and flight it's shut down is when

you're so overwhelmed, you can't do anything about what's going on and you just make it all go away.

And I've, you know, with, with horses, I've found, I've found that the ones that, that shut down the ones

that, that are super sensitive, they very, very, very, very sensitive horses. I think the ones in the, you

know, like in the middle ground, they will, you know, things bother them, they, but it's still on the

outside, you know, then you get all the, your behavioral issues that people have with horses. But I think

those horses are not the extreme sensitive ones, but I think the really sensitive ones actually can shut

down quite easily. And I think people are the same way too.

Shea Stewart (00:18:02):

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Yeah. Yes. I agree.

Warwick Schiller (00:18:08):

After your you had craniosacral awakening when you're in your early twenties how did you have, how

was that, how was your, you know, now it sounds like you were a lot more present, you know, that the

sun is shining. You feel the breeze on your skin, you're in your own body. What, how was that

adjustment?

Shea Stewart (00:18:31):

For me it was, I wanted to go back to what I remembered I wanted. I wanted, I became impatient almost

with wanting to feel alive again. So I really got into well, I, I read every book I could find on shamanism

for some reason. I really got into learning more about that. I, I went and had some hypnotherapy I knew

talk therapy wasn't for me, that would not be something that would have helped me at all. The

thoughts,

Warwick Schiller (00:19:18):

Probably a good call because from my experience you know, of being shut down the somatic

experiencing type therapy, getting your back in your body, you know, like that, that bottom up approach

versus the top-down approach. And if you guys listening at home, if you've, I used to be confused about

those terms, I had no idea what they were talking about, but top down is, you know, thinking your way

through it. And then bottom up would be starting to feel your way through it. And I really think the top-

down approach is not the best thing for a shut down person, because we've been in their heads forever.

You know, it's, that's, that's, that's just practicing what you're good at. That's not becoming aware of

your bodily sensations.

Shea Stewart (00:20:03):

Yeah. We're really good at lying to ourselves as well. A form of denial couldn't figure it out. I couldn't

denial is a, a good way how we lie to ourselves.

Warwick Schiller (00:20:22):

Right. So,

Shea Stewart (00:20:24):

So talk therapy. And I even, I remember reading and I think it was time magazine, long time ago.

Remember the tragedy with the UN Africa that Hutus and Tutsis tribes

Warwick Schiller (00:20:40):

There were wandering genocide. Yeah.

Shea Stewart (00:20:41):

Yeah. There was a group of American social workers that wanted go help them. So they went and gave

them psychotherapy and then they realized that was the wrong thing to do because all these people

ended up committing suicide when they relived that trauma that they went through and in that way, in

that way of therapizing them.

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Warwick Schiller (00:21:10):

Yeah. I can imagine something that horrific, you know, like watching people be machetes and stuff, you

will definitely go inside and for, for a very, very, very good reason, you know? Yeah. So you, so you read

a lot of stuff on shamanism. What was your experience with reading about that?

Shea Stewart (00:21:44):

Well, I think what struck me most about it was the connection with nature. So I got heavily into

meditating and I would go in the redwoods or on the beach and I would explore different forms of

meditation. I, I, I say randomly, it probably wasn't random that I met certain people in my life that

helped guide me through these things. I, I met, I had a friend who was from a tribe in Mexico and he

taught me his mother was a medicine woman and he taught me a lot of their spiritual ways and

meditations. And I went and had some sessions with the one ShawMan that was, he was a 44

generational ShawMan from Peru. And that was, that was pretty that was very close to getting cranial

sacral work done on me. [inaudible] The visions that come up, the, the fluidic the releases and in, in the

system, the vision quest, you kind of go on when these things happen and it's stuff you can't, you know,

sit there and make up. So for me, it was pretty cool, pretty cool stuff. And I was doing a lot of traveling

at the time as well. And Hm. I don't know. I ended up what else did I do?

Warwick Schiller (00:24:03):

Were you traveling for work or were you like young free and cruising around

Shea Stewart (00:24:10):

A little, a little of both. My job was well, I was in, when I was in college. I, I knew what I wanted to do,

but it wasn't really, I wasn't really in the head space to be there to be in, in school and I wasn't getting

the support I needed. And so I got a job with the airlines and I was worked as a flight attendant or a few

years traveling all over Europe and South America. And then that job is very you can, you can

manipulate your schedule where you get a lot of time off. And on my time off, I would go somewhere,

went and lived in France for a little while or, and traveled around Europe, Greek islands and stuff like

that.

Warwick Schiller (00:25:17):

It's all I can sense now, you know, like, like I said, at the start, I want to figure out how does someone get

to where they had the life experiences that lead them to, when you start to do these cronies cycle, you

can actually do it. And, you know, there's something about thinking about travel. There's an old saying

that says leaving and coming back is not the same as never having left

Warwick Schiller (00:25:41):

And all those rich experiences you get you know, visiting other cultures. And especially if you live there

for a time, you know, when you come back to, I mean, you're from Texas originally. And so if you'd lived

in Texas and never went anywhere, or you lived in Texas and went and traveled around the world and

saw a lot of things, you know, in the first instance, Texas, it would just be Texas. But when you have

been other places and then come back, Texas looks completely different that either looks better. Some

of it looked better and some it look worse.

Shea Stewart (00:26:15):

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Yeah. Yeah. When I, when I left Texas, I was 20 and I wanted, I really needed to leave and go explore the

world. I desperately needed that. And so that's what I set out to do and did as much of it as I could

Warwick Schiller (00:26:38):

When the, the, the 44th generation is a long time, the fourth generation what, what's the, what's the

formula for generations? Like how long?

Shea Stewart (00:26:56):

Yeah. Like his 30 years. I don't know. I tried to figure it out because it was fascinating to me.

Warwick Schiller (00:27:05):

Cause if it was say 30 years, that would be like 1200 years of, of, of handing that down from generation

to generation. So what I was going to ask was where did, did you go to Mexico to this guy? Or was it

here in the us?

Shea Stewart (00:27:21):

No, this was a random, well, not random, but yeah, I was this was when I was actually had already been

doing the craniosacral on horses. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. This was I was living I can't remember where I

was living if I was still in Santa Cruz and I was down in San Diego and one of my very last appointments,

it was a trainer and I was doing, doing craniosacral in the barn and she had it, she was telling me she had

a day off the next day and I said, Oh, what are you doing? And she said, well, I'm actually going to go. I

was going to go see the shaman, but something came up and I can't go anymore. And I was like, are you

kidding? So she said, do you want my appointment? So I took her appointment.

Shea Stewart (00:28:22):

He was somebody who was brought in from the, this group of people and he, he didn't speak English.

And he was his little you know, he looked like he was straight out of the mountains in Peru. And I walked

in the room and he was, it was kind of a, like a massage studio place. And I walked in and I heard a

woman crying really hard. I thought, Oh no, what are we going to do in there? But I didn't have that

same experience that she had. And you just, just lay it on a table. And he did a lot of ceremony. They

have a, a prayer that they do through whistling and it lasts for a very long time. And it's so beautiful

Warwick Schiller (00:29:26):

Where the whistle or with your mouth,

Shea Stewart (00:29:30):

He was whistling with his mouth. Okay. But it's a prayer that they do it. Yeah. It really sends you sends

you around. And I think because I was already in doing the, I was already doing craniosacral. And so I

was already in that space of slowing down getting in tune with nature. That that experience was so

profound for me. You know, I'd already worked through a lot of stuff in my own being.

Warwick Schiller (00:30:15):

Yeah. And I think that's the thing with a lot of this stuff. I mean, you go to be going to be ready for it. You

can't start at the fifth level of anything. Right. You're going to start at the first level. And I imagine with

this sort of stuff, you don't even know, you're, you're, you know, you're working through things. They

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just life experiences that, that come along. And I, like you said before, it was a, you didn't say the word

coincidence. But you know, I really think I'm a big believer in the whole thing that, you know, when

you're on your path, the universe will provide you with the next step.

Shea Stewart (00:30:52):

I completely believe that and have seen it in my own life and have been amazed at the opportunities

that present themselves when either it's either, I'm either starting to think about it or feeling something,

a change happening and, and wishing things would be a certain way. And then bam there's opportunity.

Warwick Schiller (00:31:18):

Yeah. I did a whole, I did a whole podcast on manifesting. I, I was doing it in my life before we even knew

I was doing it. I've always thought, boy, I'm lucky. Like, you know, but then I looking back, I realized,

well, no, I put that out there. I did, the podcast I did on manifesting was actually cold. Had a manifest a

car crash. Oh. Cause I was I was 23, I think. And I'd always wanted to get American learn about training

horses. And I had this, this F1 hundred in Australia that I had bought off a friend of mine for $5,000. But

that ye make and model, you can insure it for 10,000. I bought it cheap because it had some rust in it

and the paint was all faded and stuff like that. But when you insure it, they don't look at the vehicle.

They look at the age, you know, the year make model. And I said to three different people on one

occasion each, are we showing you how to write these thing off without killing myself? Because if I

could, I'd take that money and I'd go to America.

Warwick Schiller (00:32:22):

And Monticello later, I'm driving along and going pretty fast on this country road, blow a left front tire

and go off the road into a stand of small trees that, that had enough cushion. When I hit the standard

small trees to not hurt me, but hurt the, if I hit a one big tree, I might not be telling the story. And at the

time, you know, I didn't even thinking of it. And it's probably, you know, 15, 20 years later I look back

and like, hang on. I put that out there. I, I asked. And so you gotta be careful what you wish for

Shea Stewart (00:32:58):

You do. And I learned about manifesting as a young child. I remember my mother would say, Oh, I need

to talk to, you know, so-and-so somebody in our family. Or, and this was, you know, back before cell

phones, we had one phone in the kitchen, no answering machine. And she would think of something she

needed to tell somebody in our family. And she would say, Oh, I need to, I need to talk to this person. I

need to go think about them. So she would go off somewhere quiet and, and just get really still and

think about this person. And then sure enough, you know, they would call hour later. Sometimes it was

the next day, but usually it was fairly quickly. And then it was like, Oh, you just popped in my head. So I

figured I needed to call you.

Warwick Schiller (00:34:01):

Wow. So your mother was in touch with this stuff too.

Shea Stewart (00:34:06):

[Inaudible] And my, my grandmother, my grandfather, he, they lived way out in the country. So it it's the

kind of place you can't find. The directions would be like when you get to the big Oak tree turn left. And

then once the big Oak tree died, they would say, when you get to the place where there used to be a big

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Oak tree left, so people would have to find it where you might be able to turn left and imagine, well,

with, could there have been an Oak tree there at one point? Yeah, maybe let's go left here. So they were

pretty far out and it was, they had a lot of land. And when I was a kid, my grandmother used to make,

make us go outside and just sit there and stare out at nature. And she would say, just listen to the

silence and feel the wind and look at the trees and the animals, listen to the birds. And we would sit

there or I would sit there for a good couple hours. We would just sit and be in nature. And I remember

as a kid feeling a deep sense of restoration after that.

Warwick Schiller (00:35:40):

Wow. So, you know, you said after you had the craniosacral, when you were 21 years old, that you, you

started reading all this stuff about shamanism. Well, I've read some books on shamanism and one of

them is really the, probably the better one I read was called calling his home by a fellow named Chris,

your house or something rather. But the path to shamanism is, first thing you do is you go out and you

sit in nature and you observe, you see Dylan, you observe. And then the set, like the second part of that

exercise, you got, you sit in NYCHA and you sit still and you listen. And then the third part of that

exercise is you go out and you sit still in nature and you feel like you, you're not looking, you know,

hearing you're concentrating on what you can feel coming in from out there.

Warwick Schiller (00:36:33):

And then after a while, you can go out and you can sit in nature and you know, like 20% of what you get

in comes in your eyes and 20% of what you're getting comes in your ears, but about 60% of what you

get comes in through your, through your body. So you, you were on that path no wonder you're doing

the craniosacral. Like you were on that path as a, as a child. Wow. No wonder you, you know, if you

were tuning into all that stuff, no wonder you you know, you shut down when you're, you know, when

you're not the passed away. I mean, you you attuned into the staff. Wow.

Shea Stewart (00:37:16):

Yeah. And my grandfather, he, he was he was very fascinated with indigenous cultures

Shea Stewart (00:37:30):

And he used to go to Alaska and hang out with them and learn their ways. And he also, he also hung out

with he would, he spent a lot of time in South America as well. And but in his later years, he'd go to

Alaska and hang out with the indigenous people there and come back and tell us the stories. And we

would sit and listen to he would buy I remember he bought this album of wolves and it was nothing but

wills, howling and making all their the way they communicate with each other. And he would talk about

what all that meant and based on what he's learned from, from these tribal communities and

Warwick Schiller (00:38:30):

Wow. Not, yeah. I've got to say it again. No wonder you ended up doing what you're doing. So you're

talking about the 44th generation chairman did before. From what you're telling me, you were at least

the generation.

Shea Stewart (00:38:42):

Yeah, my, yeah, my grandparents were, and my mother, they were pretty special that way. And talking

about things like communicating through with each other, you know, without the telephone that was

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common in my family. Like, you know, my mother would try to send my grandmother a message about,

you know, something and, or I remember we would leave. And my cousin, like, I remember one time

my, my mother forgot something and my cousin was sitting there, saw, saw that she had forgotten

something. So she immediately started trying to send her mental messages to come back because you

forgot this thing. And my mother thought my cousin popped in her mind and she said, Oh, I need to go

back. Cause we forgot this, this thing. And then when we went back, they were like, Oh yeah, you know,

I heard you telling me, so that was kind of normal. And when I was a kid,

Warwick Schiller (00:39:57):

Wow, what a, what an education that's.

Shea Stewart (00:40:02):

Yeah. And I didn't realize other people didn't do that. I always had the thought that if, if I know

something or do something, then it must be common. It must be common knowledge. And

Warwick Schiller (00:40:16):

Yeah, I think you do that as a kid. Like I grew up on, on 1200 acres and you know, you can get them a

school and go get on your host, go ride around. And I, that was my normal, I thought everybody had

1200 acres to ride around on. Yeah. That's, that's just fascinating that you had that, that background. So

yeah, I think we're kind of making our point. He, how you actually ended up being able to do these, you

know, the, the whole premise of this thing was, okay, craniosacral is a bit of science, but a bit of

something else. And I was wondering how you got to the something else. And it's becoming quite

obvious that you've spent a lifetime apart from about 10 years that we didn't.

Shea Stewart (00:41:01):

Even when, even when I didn't, I was obsessed with drawing bones when I was 18, 1920. And I was, I

was always fascinated with bones, but in particular skull bones and I would spend hours drawing and I

would focus on the little squiggly lines where the bones met. And so even when I shut down, there was

still piece of me doing stuff. I just didn't realize, you know what I was doing really.

Warwick Schiller (00:41:41):

So you were drawing skull bones and you were focusing on the squiggly line where the bones meet and

what you had told me. That's a big part of the craniosacral thing to where that those, those bones are,

you know, your skull is not solid. There's these floating floating by Antony. Wow. So you, it almost was a

fascination with you. This is before you had craniosacral. So

Shea Stewart (00:42:06):

It was yes. Yeah. And you know, if you would've told me then what I would be doing now, I wouldn't

have believed it.

Warwick Schiller (00:42:17):

So for everybody listening at home, as you probably know about the podcast, I give the guests a number

of questions to choose from, from 20 questions. And one of the ones that you chose was what did you

want to be as a child?

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Shea Stewart (00:42:30):

So when I was a child, I was obsessed with horses and I wanted to be one of two things. I either wanted

to do something while I worked with horses as my profession, or I wanted to be a hermit,

Warwick Schiller (00:42:52):

A to learn it.

Shea Stewart (00:42:55):

And I, and I had met a hermit and out where my grandparents lived. They the, the land, I don't know,

next to them was a Hermitage. And there was one man who used to randomly come by and he would

just sit and talk and he invited us to go see my mother. And I, he invited us to go see where he lived. He

lived in this little cabin and just in, in the country and his walls were surrounded with books and it was,

you know, philosophical type books and all kinds of interesting things. He was such an interesting man.

And he would talk about, you know, the quietness of being out there. I thought, wow, I could live like

that. So that was one of the things I aspire to do.

Warwick Schiller (00:44:04):

Again, it's, it's sounds like it's all the same stuff. Like where you're at now. You've been heading here for

Shea Stewart (00:44:11):

All your life. My whole life. Yeah. When I was 10, right before my mother died, we went to Northern

California and we went to a Sufi camp. She started getting into Sufism and I have no idea how she got

into this. I mean, we lived in a small town in Texas and in the middle of well, it was the Bible belt. So it w

it was, you know, I don't know how she, this was

Warwick Schiller (00:44:47):

Before.

Shea Stewart (00:44:50):

Yeah. And that's where I learned how to meditate. And I've, I don't know a whole lot about Sufism other

than they, it seems like once you start studying a lot of the different religions, they all kind of have a

similar place that you aspire to be of peace and connection to a higher being or connection to the forces

in nature. There's a similarity.

Warwick Schiller (00:45:34):

Yeah. I guess the word, I guess the word for that in a say Buddhism would be enlightenment. Yes. So I

just did a little quick search here. Sufism is variously defined as Islamic mysticism. Sufism began very

early in Islamic history and represents the main manifestation and the most important and central

crystallization of mystical practice in Islam. So you're living in the Bible belt in Texas, and your mother is

into a is a, into a, the mystical part of Islam. So that's,

Shea Stewart (00:46:18):

Yeah.

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Warwick Schiller (00:46:19):

I just keep getting amazed every story that comes out of your mouth, it's like, no wonder you are doing

what you are doing, you know?

Shea Stewart (00:46:27):

Yeah. And how on earth she found that I have no idea.

Warwick Schiller (00:46:33):

So you went to a, a S a Sufi place in Northern California.

Shea Stewart (00:46:37):

Yep. When I went back to school and we had just moved to this place, this town in Texas, and I

remember going back to school, everyone else had gone to you know, Bible camp or some kind of

nature camp. And then here, here, I was talking about Sufi camp where we learned to meditate and

circle dance. And,

Warwick Schiller (00:47:01):

And how old were you at the time? 10. Oh, this is right before this is before your mother died. Right

before she died. Wow. Yeah. You just blow me away. There was so much more to this story than I

thought there was. Yeah. Okay. So at one point in time, you were a horse trainer. Tell us about that.

Shea Stewart (00:47:24):

Yeah. So when I had lived in a few different places back and forth from California lived in France lived in

Tucson, Arizona for awhile, went back to California, and this was about midnight, mid nineties. And I was

ready to get back into horses. I had realized that was one of my passions in life that I shut down too.

Cause it was just too hard for me to have them when, after my mother died. And so I moved to the

Santa Cruz mountains. And

Warwick Schiller (00:48:15):

What, what was the attraction to Santa Cruz mountains? Cause if people don't know, Santa Cruz is like

the hippie capital of California and California is like the hippie state of U S. So Santa Cruz is Santa Cruz.

We live not very far from Santa Cruz where we are. And yeah, Santa Cruz is like, it's full on Hippieville

anybody's from Australia. It's like the Nimbin or the bar and buy of, of of California. I don't know any

places in other countries that I could refer to, but there's a lot of Australians that listened to this. So they

would definitely get that.

Shea Stewart (00:48:51):

Yeah, total Hippieville there. I was driving around looking for a place to rent or to move to, and I just

ended up in Boulder Creek somehow. I don't even know how I got there. I was just driving aimlessly. You

know, it didn't have any, I didn't look at a map and make a plan. I just got in the cars are driving. And I

came in these, this mountain range, huge trees and these, this beautiful forest. And I was like, wow, this,

this place is amazing. And then I drove a little further and I saw that people actually lived there and I

thought, well, this is cool. I could live here. And so I looked for a place to rent and we rented a place.

And then it was, that was the real estate market was very depressed back then because it was not long

after that earthquake.

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Shea Stewart (00:50:02):

And that was where the epicenter was. So I bought a little house in Boulder Creek and then right after

that, the whole area boomed. And that's how I ended up getting into the horse ranch that I eventually

bought. But I had found this woman who had this place and I went there and I started riding again. And

it was very shortly after that, that I met Harry Whitney. He was there teaching a clinic. And I, I mean,

when I was a kid, I did jumping and some dressage and some, some cow work I never was into shows.

Even as a kid, I did a couple of horse shows, but I didn't like them because I didn't like what the shows

the competitions did to my friends. They were different. And I didn't like that. I didn't like the stress that

the horses felt. So that was never really a desire of mine to compete. So when I fast forward, back to

that moment, when I was walking up the Hill and there was this man talking about connecting with the

horses mind and directing their thoughts and helping clear up your communication, where it's an, they

understand it. And that connectedness that somebody coined the term with Eunice who wrote a lot

about Harry. That was, I was like, okay, this is the person I want to learn from. This is I want what I want,

the connection that he has with that horse he's on.

Warwick Schiller (00:52:12):

So how many, what's the population of the U S

Shea Stewart (00:52:17):

300 million? I don't know, 32 million,

Warwick Schiller (00:52:22):

300 million people you just happened to be in the right, in the same places as Harry Whitney. Who's

talking about stuff that you've been kind of working on that connection to everything you've been

working, basically all your life, even if you didn't know you were, and now you want to get back into

horses and then there's Harry, Whitney just pop that up.

Shea Stewart (00:52:43):

Like, like literally not even a month into it. And yeah. And he had just started doing clinics, I believe at

that time. Cause that was back when he brought his own horses.

Warwick Schiller (00:52:57):

Yeah. Harry, someone I'd love to get on the podcast. I've never met Harry, but I've heard a lot about

Harry from different, different people and reading some of the stuff that he has put out. There was

some of the seeds that were planted out. I think that to get me thinking more about directing their

thoughts rather than directing their feet. And yeah. So you, so you, did you, did you spend with Harry as

in go to Harry's place or did you just do clinics with Harry what'd you do?

Shea Stewart (00:53:31):

I so he was coming to do clinics about twice a year and I did those as much as I could. Well, probably

about a year or so. And then I've, I learned that he had that you could go to where he was in Arizona and

spend more time. So I would spend about five, six weeks a year in Arizona. And I did that every year for,

I don't know, 15 years or really, yeah, 10 years I went there a lot and I would bring, I would when I

started. So as I got back into riding and then I started riding horses for people, and then the more I

learned, the more I would get clients wanting to learn what, what I was doing or the type of

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horsemanship that I did and yeah, we'd get horses and that were very difficult, dangerous flighty, you

know, whatever the extreme and a lot of times I'd take that horse stairs zona and go work with them at

Harry's. So I learned a lot learned a lot about horse behavior and how, how to get that connection that I

was seeking, which to me was better than going to a show and winning a Reuben.

Warwick Schiller (00:55:29):

But I'm, I'm probably I'm at that point. Now I, you know, the last time I competed was the world of

question games in 2019. And I really think that well, I'm pretty sure that might be my last raining. I'm not

trying to, you know, there's some other things out there that seem like they kind of fund for the horse

that I made PT. And, but like the raining it's, you know, it's just an, it's just a lesson in obedience, you

know, it's, it's really just, you know, and, and dressage is pretty much the same too. It's, it's, it's just,

there's no point to it, to the horse jumping. There's a point you know, anything work in a cow, there's a

point where like, say the raining into massage is there is really no point for the whole

Shea Stewart (00:56:18):

Yeah. It's just drills and drills. Yeah.

Shea Stewart (00:56:24):

And drinks.

Warwick Schiller (00:56:25):

Well, they, yeah, sometimes they can be tricks, I think. And sometimes they can actually be, you know,

a, an education that has a foundation and it all makes sense to it. Point is. But th th the thing is, you

know, there's no reason for the horse to stop or turn in the raining, even though raining came from back

in the, you know, back in the day from racking working cattle, but it's just taking the care out of the

equation, you know? And it was interesting. I was listening to a podcast here six months ago, and there's

one of the, one of the leading reigning trainers in the world has a podcast. And he has different guests

on there. And he had one of his guests on, there was a trainer that he used to work for. And the trainer

used to work for does raining and the cow horse, and a bit of the cutting.

Warwick Schiller (00:57:14):

And so this, this guy that has the podcast, like I said, he's one of the best riders in the world. And he was

saying that he spent a week in Texas with a cutting horse trainer. And he said, you know, what, if I didn't

have all the, you know, I've got kids going to college and I've got a huge, big business and all that stuff.

But if he said, if I had to do it all over again, I'd start out with the cutting. He said, because the horse is a

completely different, they're very bright eyes, you know, because there's no, you know, there's no

drilling this. It's, it's something it's engaging, boring, it's engaging and

Shea Stewart (00:57:50):

Doing something together, like a job together.

Warwick Schiller (00:57:54):

And, and the guy that he worked for, the guy who was interviewing said, yeah, me too. And it's like,

Whoa, that's, you know, that two of the best guys in the world at that sport kind of like, yeah, we have

to kind of turn them into robots to do this thing. And we wish it could be different. I know that was, you

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know, it was funny because I'd been kind of thinking that, but I hadn't shared that with anybody because

I'd look like an idiot, you know?

Shea Stewart (00:58:17):

That's really cool though. That's and there, there is a lot, I mean, there's a lot of good things about the

different disciplines. You, people can learn a very solid foundation of writing and exercises and skills that

somebody needs. For sure. So I don't mean to discount any of that.

Warwick Schiller (00:58:42):

Oh, no. I mean, not, there's just that, like, you get, you get to a certain point, like thinking about those

two guys got to that point. Yeah. It was kind of thing, the kind of at the same point too. Yeah. It's just

interesting how those,

Shea Stewart (00:58:55):

It's interesting how people who are into certain things do get two points like that. Or even if you talk

about people who do body work, like I know quite a few Rolfers, which is a very deep manipulation of

bodywork, they end up, Oh, no, quite a few of them who've ended up being therapist and then that's all

they do. They don't even do the deep stuff anymore.

Warwick Schiller (00:59:26):

So they go from really deep, deep tissue massage, a lot of stuff to barely doing anything at all. Yeah. I

can, I can say that. And I, and I think, yeah, I think it's kind of the same thing with me, like with the

horses now, you know, it used to be all about obedience and, and I, and I don't mean forced obedience.

A lot of the lot of the training I used to do was, you know, making my idea, their idea. It wasn't

necessarily forced, but it was, but it was about obedience. And these days, for me, it's more about the,

it's more about the connection and what I've found is the things that I wanted them to do when I was

working on obedience, come so much easier when you've got the connection first.

Shea Stewart (01:00:13):

Yes. Yes. And when I trained, when I had my place, I could, I did things, you know, most trainers, they

would have their groom or their assistant who would go get the horse groom, the horse, tack them up

and maybe do some groundwork. And then they'd hand the horse to the trainer to ride for me, I would

be the one, I had an assistant, but I would go get the horse. And when I got to their paddock, I would,

okay. So the horse softly approaching me, or is the horse, am I having to chase them around the

paddock and you know, how they feel about being haltered? So I'd work on that. And then, okay, now

that they're okay with this spot, how they feel about being led down the Hill and, you know, are they

rushing? Are they pushing? Are they trying to pull, you know, all these things. So I'd work on that and

then okay. How they feel about being tied. And if there was an issue there I'd work on that. And then I

would get their saddle out and okay, how how's this going? Do I need to spend some time here? So by

the time I got the horse, led them, tie them up, groom them, put their tack on, maybe did a little bit of

groundwork. I would then hand that horse to my assistant to go ride.

Warwick Schiller (01:01:39):

See, I think that's the way it should be done. Because a lot of times in places that all that stuff you're

talking about then is done by the person with the least amount of experience. And that's the important

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part. You know, there's the question. I mean, I answer lots of questions on my, I've got a private

Facebook group. I mean, anybody can join it. We let them in, but it's a private group. And I answer

questions on there every day. And the one question that comes up a lot, like a great deal is, well, I'll give

you the, I'll give you the human analogy. You know, what would you say if a man said, Hey, I was walking

in the street the other day and I saw this really pretty girl. And so I went up and asked her for a phone

number and she ignored me.

Warwick Schiller (01:02:18):

And so I followed her along. I kept asking for a phone number. She still ignored me anyway. So then I

tried to kiss her and she kicked me in the groin. How do I get it to stop kick me in the groin? And cause

the question I get so much is you have got this horse and he's really hard to catch. But anyway, when I

try to can't remind the saddle, I have this problem, how do I fix that problem? But you can't ignore the

he's telling you right off the bat. He doesn't want to, you know, you've asked him for his phone number

and he just ignores you and keeps walking. You're not going to try to kiss him. You wouldn't do it with a

human. Like you would think that's a ridiculous thing. But with horses, for some reason, reason goes out

the window at times.

Shea Stewart (01:03:04):

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it's interesting how we, we miss all these things. We don't see all these things.

And then when we, when it's a problem, it could have been fixed.

Warwick Schiller (01:03:17):

Yeah. I love it. I just, I just love what you said. I'm Indigo. I've never actually heard anybody say that

where you, the trainer, the boss who's got, the assistant goes, catches. The horse works on the leading,

works on the, you know, the connection all the way up to get to the tying up, work on that, work on the

grooming, work on the sailing and then have the assistant go ride the horse, which is completely

opposite to what, the way it's done most times. And, and yeah, I think, yeah, by the time you get to

where you get on all the problems or the problems that might the problems that might arise have been

solved. I used to get a lot of problem horses too. And you know, I would get in bucking bolting, rearing

horses, and I would video there's this, you know, I've got a big online video library and I would video

these horses.

Warwick Schiller (01:04:07):

Like I'd videoed them the first day, the second day, the third day, the fourth I'd show the whole process.

And it's funny. None of the horses that Cybil rearing, you know, none of them actually read during the

process. And I had a, I had a big our sport horse probably six or seven years, maybe eight years ago that

came in that a train ahead. And, and, and she was from the central Valley and she bought the horse over

and one of the ones I wanted to help it is hosted raise. Anyway, she rides a horse around the arena and

does Ray with her a few times. And I can see where the air is coming from. And I said to him, you know,

what would you like to leave? And he, and she goes, okay. And I got, you know, he read a couple of

times and we happened to video it.

Warwick Schiller (01:04:52):

So I've got the footage mirror. And then I go through the whole process, you know, I haven't for a

month, two months, something like that. And there's no raring involved in that at all. And, but I didn't

have very much footage of him rearing at this stuff. And so people could go, Oh, that horse is not really a

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rarer. So here are a few, couple of years ago. You know, I I've changed quite a bit about what I do in the

last five years, I guess, but I don't train horses for the public anymore. So I didn't really have, like, those

full-on series, I've filmed a lot at clinics and stuff around the world, but not really a start to finish sort of

thing. And I had an eventing train to contact me and she said, she's got this chronically rearing vent, this

warm, important warm blood man.

Warwick Schiller (01:05:34):

And she asked, could I work with a horse? And I said no, I'm really these days, I'm just big on big on

education. You know, I want to educate people. I don't necessarily want to do the work myself. I want to

help people, you know? And I said, well, I said, I'd like to take her, but do you have any footage of her

rearing? And she goes, I've got plenty of footage of her rear. And I said, well, can I use it? And she's like,

Hmm, let me think about that. So she thought about it for a few days and she got back to me. She goes,

you know what, if I, if I tried to sell her, you know, she said, every, everybody I would want to sell this

horse to every venting trainer in California has been as has seen her being disqualified on the cross

country course at every place in California for refusing and raring and all that sort of stuff.

Warwick Schiller (01:06:28):

So, yeah, I don't think it's that big a deal. It's not going to, you know, affect the sale of her if I tried to sell

it in any way. And so I you know, I might've, I did a series on that, on that may from start to finish. But

the start of every session, when I put it on my subscription thing, I would have the footage of her rearing

up just to remind people that this horse is a chronic rarer, but you don't see any chronic rearing in the

training of it. Cause if I didn't have that footage filming her would have been useless, good training, you

know, a good process and stuff, but there would be that one person who watched it and go, yeah, but

that, one's not a rare, I've got one that rares, you know what I mean? And so yeah, I think, yeah, I think a

lot of times, if you, if you don't have that, that footage at the start that proves these horse is a chronic

rarer and she stands straight up, she doesn't just pop up a little bit. She will stand up sort of thing. If you

don't have that, then people can very easily go, Oh, now I've got one voice net, but the whole worst

thing is not focusing on what, how they present when you go to catch them, not focusing on how

they're feeling while you're leading them. Are they pushy? Are they worried that they're rushing or they

dragging or they, you know, or because as you, and I know all that stuff is that's the, that's the big stuff.

The rest, the hard stuff's easy.

Shea Stewart (01:07:53):

Yeah. You can see the rear when you go to put the halter on sometimes. Right? Oh, there's where the

rear is.

Warwick Schiller (01:08:00):

Yeah. That's the, that's the Bryce that turns if, if the situation escalates, it goes into the Ray, they're not

raring right

Shea Stewart (01:08:09):

There. Yeah. Yeah.

Warwick Schiller (01:08:13):

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And I, you know, I think, you know, I think that's, it's just, it doesn't matter if you go and see you know, if

you think about the Dr. Phil show, you ever watched the Dr. Phil,

Shea Stewart (01:08:23):

I used to watch that,

Warwick Schiller (01:08:25):

You know, most people don't admit they've watched the dog, but if you think about that, you know,

people come on the Dr. Phil show and you know, my husband, he does this, or he does that or

whatever. And Dr. Phil starts asking questions and about 20 minutes later, or 20 questions later, he gets

to the, the root of the problem. And again, you know, what y'all need to do here is, and, and it seems

like it's nothing to do with the problem, you know, but it's, I think it's the same with the horses. You

have to just be able to recognize that, that little stuff, I've got a meme that I've screenshotted, that I use

sometimes when I'm answering questions. And it's a picture of Heath ledger in Batman when he's as the

joker. Okay. And he's kind of looking at, you know, he's got that, you know, the big scar looking face

paint on, you know, and he's kind of got his head tipped a little bit, like on a 45 degree angle, and he's

looking at the camera, like you're an idiot sort of that sort of a look.

Warwick Schiller (01:09:24):

And the meme says, things are not getting worse. They're just becoming more apparent, Oh, that's a

good one. And you know, it's like, your horse is raring, but yeah, that, that's, that's not worse. That's just

more apparent. That was Bryce was there when you did whatever, you know, when you were catching

them when you lead them. And, and I think that's the hard thing for people to understand with horses.

But like with the rest of our life, we don't do that. You go, Hey, I started my car and it had this really bad

noise in it this morning. But anyway, when I was going 60 miles an hour down the freeway, I had a

problem with, you know, you wouldn't do that or you wouldn't go, you know what? My child's filed the

second grade and the third grade and the fourth and the fifth and the sixth grade.

Warwick Schiller (01:10:15):

But anyway, I want help getting him through the seventh grade. You know, they've been telling you for

six years that they're not understanding the work, my son. So we moved to Australia from the end of

2006. So just before Christmas, 2006, and we came back just before or after Christmas, I can't

remember 2010. And so in Australia, your school year starts February 1st. And you're finished about the

15th of December. And you've got six weeks off over summer because believe it or not, we have

Christmas in the summer in Australia. And so my son, we moved to Australia and he was in the middle

of, excuse me. He was in the middle of one grade. I think it might've been the fifth grade. And so we

moved to Australia, he's there for the summer. And then he stopped schooling February. And we want

to know, does he start the fifth grade again?

Warwick Schiller (01:11:11):

Or should we go in the sixth grade? And so they did some tests with the guy he's, he's fine. Put him in

the sixth grade. Well, somewhere in that last half of fifth grade, he's must be where you learn about

algebra. Because when we moved back from Australia, we way, I think we moved back here. My son

was, had an eye in everything in an F in algebra. So, you know, because you've got nine, everything else

that he's smart and he can do the work, but he has an F in algebra. And so what does the teacher do

when the kid is failing algebra, give them more algebra, more algebra homework. And so one, I mean, it

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was a Sunday night. Tyler was doing some homework and he's just not getting this, you know, this is

stupid. Or I think it, we said it was stupid.

Warwick Schiller (01:11:59):

He said that this is stupid. If X equals three, why don't they just use three? And I said, we, because X is a

variable. You can change it for different things. And I talked about it and he goes, Oh really? And I said,

you don't understand that X is a variable. And he said, no. I said, I'll tell you what, when you go to school

tomorrow, can you sit down with your teacher? Tell me, tell the teacher exactly what you just told me.

If, if X is, if X equals three, why don't you just use a three, let him know that you don't understand this.

And so he told her, and she goes, what are you doing tomorrow afternoon after school? And he says,

Oh, nothing. She says, come and see me and we'll go through this. So I think she went there Tuesday

afternoon and Thursday afternoon after school, she helped him out a little bit. And the next week has an

eye in algebra. And that's, I think that's so much like where people have problems with their horses is

they don't understand algebra, but people keep giving them more algebra instead of going back and say,

okay, let's not even do algebra. Let's talk about what algebra means. Does that make sense?

Shea Stewart (01:13:04):

It does. And it does. And people they, they're not taught how, how to read a horse, how to read their

body language and their expressions. And they're not taught how, what to do about that. And then I

noticed when I was teaching a lot of the times when I was teaching people, I ended up teaching them

how to be present because they, you know, they couldn't even stop and long enough to see what their

horse was doing. So, you know, they're the type of people who would lose their keys or, you know, just

not just walking through life, not being present. And then here, they were expected to be present this

one hour, they're spending with their horse and it doesn't work that way. You have to learn how to just

slow down. But I think, yeah, I think the algebra analogy

Shea Stewart (01:14:12):

Is, is right as well. We're just not, we're just not taught these things. We're taught people, people learn a

discipline, they don't learn about the horse. So the horse kind of gets lost in that discipline.

Warwick Schiller (01:14:30):

Yeah. I you know, I started out, well, I didn't, you know, I, you know, rode in pony club and we did all

sorts of stuff as kids, but you know, when I came to the States, I you know, I wanted to learn about the

writing and that's, and along the way of trying to figure out how to try and the riding horses better,

especially the younger ones. I really got into the horsemanship stuff as a means to an end. And the end

was the renting stuff. You know what I mean? And so I got into understanding the horse a bit more and

a bit more and a bit more. And then, like I said, a bit, five years ago, I really took a left turn down the

rabbit hole sort of thing. And, you know, if you think about it originally, I got into really trying to

understand the horse to make the discipline better. But what happened over a period of time is the

more I understood the horse, which w th the point of doing that was to get the discipline better. The

more I understood the horse, the less the discipline meant to me, it a bit of a paradox.

Shea Stewart (01:15:39):

Yeah. I know what you mean,

Warwick Schiller (01:15:42):

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But that's it. And, you know, Indigo, you said a lot of people don't learn how to read a horse and

remember reading an article in I think it was an eclectic horse magazine. I can't remember. I think it

might've even been Dr. Deb Bennett said in this article, it said, you know, horses are always

communicating stuff too. Even when, even when they're saying nothing at all, when they say nothing,

that means something. And you have, you you've spent time with Dr. D Bennett Avenue.

Shea Stewart (01:16:12):

I, she was not far from Maine, California, so she was always giving lectures. And so I've, I went to a lot of

her talks and I did her dissection clinic. She had up in bend Oregon. That was, that was really good. Yeah,

Dr. Deb is, she's fascinating. She's got so much knowledge. Somebody would ask her a question about a

muscle and she would know like how the muscle, you know, what, what point in the womb it was

developed and how it came about. And then she would go into history and talk about some King that

rode this and

Shea Stewart (01:17:10):

Talk about all his habits he had. And I mean, she just remembers all this stuff, and it's just fascinating

being around her. I think she's, she's, she's special for sure. I wouldn't want to take a riding lesson from

her, but she's got a wealth of knowledge to offer that's for sure.

Warwick Schiller (01:17:36):

How many of those, the sections have you done?

Shea Stewart (01:17:39):

I did one with Dr. Dab, and then I've done a couple others with the group in Holland and those were

more recent. And one of those was led by Sharon Mays Davis.

Warwick Schiller (01:17:56):

Okay. Yeah. She's the one that I've heard a lot of people have have done. So did she show you the

tongue thing?

Shea Stewart (01:18:04):

Which

Warwick Schiller (01:18:05):

With the high leg and the tongue,

Shea Stewart (01:18:09):

What I saw in both of these dissections where they put different head stalls and bits in the horse's

mouth. And so they had a curb bit, a snaffle bit, one of those straight rubbery nylon bits and just a side

pool or [inaudible]. Yeah. And they had one person take the back leg and move the back leg front to

back. And another person had their hands on the horses back and they put each different bit in the

horse. They put the curb bit in, and then Thursday was one of the women who's doing the dissection

would tighten it. And you could, you could see the leg not be so fluid in the movement. Yeah.

Warwick Schiller (01:19:01):

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That's just what I was getting at. I've had a number of people who've been to Sharon, my Davis's things.

And that's the one thing they say is when you put pressure on the, you can take that hind leg and it

swings softly, but you put pressure on the tongue and the hind leg does not it's, it's a bit, catch-up, you

know, it's not like a, a door that's got a squeak or something to it. And it's, that's fascinating that that

tongue is connected to the hind feet.

Shea Stewart (01:19:26):

Well, what was even more fascinating was that this was done on a dead horse. Like where, how is this

happening? There's no brain activity. There's no muscle connection. There's no neurons. There's no,

there's nothing as, you know, it's dead animal yet. You can put pressure with different bits on, in the

mouth and the tongue, and there's still a restriction happening that blew me away.

Warwick Schiller (01:19:57):

Yeah. I think that's one of those, well that that's a blowing away. Definitely. Cause it's a data animal, but

let's say it was a law. I mean, the understanding that restriction on you think about a lot of people in

certain disciplines that are riding around trying to get the horse to, you know, in the back and swing the

hind legs and they pull it on their head to do it. Yeah. And it's yeah. It's defeating the purpose.

Shea Stewart (01:20:24):

Yeah. Yeah. When I was training, I always started everybody in a side pole and that, that little tack store

in Santa Cruz, they would carry them for me because they always knew that I would be sending people

in there to buy this certain side pole because I didn't want them using a bit until they understood how to

connect with the horse. How did, so I didn't want them to go stronger. And until they developed a feel

and then a lot of people just stayed in their side pole because they realized they didn't even need a bit.

Warwick Schiller (01:21:04):

Right. You know, I had I, like I said, I used to get in a lot of problem horses. You know, quite a few of

them are sometimes dressage horses, but I remember one time I had a local dressage trainer actually

bring me a horse that she was having problems with. And she walked through the barn and there was a

hanging on the, you know, brought it back by the crushed house. There was a, you know, a shanked bit,

the reason the riding horses and she rode past. And I had a young, Hispanic fellow named chewy

working for me at the time. And she walked past and she looked at his bit and she goes, Whoa, what

what's that bit is that used for bolting horses and chewy grabbed up a rope halter. And he goes, no, no,

that's what we ride the bolting horses in. That's cool. And she looked at him like, you're an idiot, you

know, like, you'd need a big bit for bolting, who is when we start them in, we start them in a halter.

Shea Stewart (01:21:59):

Yeah. Harry, when I first met Harry and he was bringing his horses to the clinics, he, one day he would

ride the horse and a curb bit. The next day he'd ride the horse and aside pool or a canvas. And next day

he'd ride the horse in a snaffle just to show people. It's not about, it's not about the what's in their

mouth. It's about the communication that you develop with them.

Warwick Schiller (01:22:26):

Yeah. You know, and the, and the big a bit is actually more of a repercussion if you get to it, which, you

know, I think about in society, if let's say an eight year old, couple of eight year old kids applying in one

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of them does something with a baseball bat or whatever. And one of them does something stupid and

kills the other one, you don't hold them accountable. Like they're an adult, you know, you have to have

a certain understanding in order to face bigger repercussions. And like, it be a bit has, has got more

pressure, but so you don't put more pressure on when they don't understand, they've got to understand

parameters and boundaries and stuff, and then you can enforce those parameters and boundaries a

little more later on. Yeah. So it's, it's a little bit like that. I think.

Shea Stewart (01:23:21):

Yeah. Those bigger bits you can, yeah. You can definitely cause a horse to rear or flip over if they,

Warwick Schiller (01:23:30):

Well, that's funny. Cause a host to re you know, I get some questions at times about rearing horses and

people go, Oh my host, the other day he read, what should I, you know, what should I do? And my, this

can be over the internet could be an email or whatever. And I always reply back. Why were you pulling

on the reins? Cause no horse res on its own raring is not a rearing is a last resort. And usually they go,

well, he was trying to bolt home. I said, okay, so you've got a bolting problem, not a rearing problem.

You turned it into a recurring problem. You know what I mean? Like no, no horse decides to rare or most

don't decide to rare on their own. Usually they're trying to go to somewhere and the rider won't let

them, or they're trying to get away from some way.

Warwick Schiller (01:24:18):

And the rider won't let them. And then they say my horse, my horse res, but it's like, no, your horse was

trying to do something else and you wouldn't let them solve the, be solved. The other thing, the rearing

rearing is usually like raring, scares the hell out of people, but it doesn't scare the hell out of me because

it's, it's I know it's the last resort and I know, I know there's a, there's a reason for it. And if you can solve

the thing that was trying to happen, that the rider was preventing and cause the red and you know,

that's, it's pretty darn simple that way. Online actually asked you some of these questions that you had

Shea Stewart (01:25:01):

Okay.

Warwick Schiller (01:25:02):

Makes to you're you're you're ready for the, the, the questions.

Shea Stewart (01:25:07):

Yes, I'm

Warwick Schiller (01:25:08):

Ready. Okay. So first question it shows then is if you had a message to S if you could spread a message

throughout the world, what would your message be?

Shea Stewart (01:25:18):

My message would be for people to learn how to slow down, connect with nature. We are our bodies

end up turning into this. If you think of our bodies as fluid fluid, you know, we're made up of mostly fluid

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and we get caught up in this fast paced life that we're in and our, our bodies just start to vibrate. And

the, our fluids live

Shea Stewart (01:26:04):

In this constant state of vibration. That's not where we, where we need to be. Basically it's not a natural

state. So I think my message would be

Warwick Schiller (01:26:21):

For

Shea Stewart (01:26:21):

Everybody just to slow down, go, go outside and sit in the grass under a tree and just, and try to just get

in touch with the nature around you, get off the computer, get off the phone, turn off the TV, stop

listening to the news and just, you know, we're, we're just surrounded by negativity through, you know,

sometimes I'll turn the TV on in the morning. And the first thing I'll hear is pregnant woman stabbed to

death in her apartment this morning. And it's like, you know, I don't want to start my day with that, that

that's not representative of life. To me, all this negative stuff that happens in the world. I mean, yeah,

it's happening, but that's not all of life. There's a lot of beauty out there that we need to reconnect with.

And I think the world will be a better place if we did.

Warwick Schiller (01:27:28):

Yeah. And I watch the news for the, for that reason. So another question that is related to that one, I

think is what do you feel your true purpose is?

Shea Stewart (01:27:44):

I feel like I'm living it

Warwick Schiller (01:27:50):

Correct answer.

Shea Stewart (01:27:57):

And I honestly feel when you, when you get an as, as the more in tune, you get to your true purpose and

the more you live it, the more it comes about itself. Like the more it brings, the more that's when you

have to start being careful about what you asked for, because it's really it'll come even quicker. But

yeah, I feel like I'm living my true purpose. The cranial work, I believe is my true purpose.

Warwick Schiller (01:28:35):

Very good. What, what's the most worthwhile thing you've ever done with your life and yeah, what's the

most worthwhile thing. I think that's the other question, guys. Let me see. Let me see what the exact

question is. It is what's the most worthwhile thing you put your time into something that you've done

that changed the course of your life?

Shea Stewart (01:29:05):

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So much of my life has probably the biodynamic craniosacral training that has really, that really changed

my life. That brought me back in touch to in touch with what's real. And that sense of where I was when

I was a kid. And it gave me a new perspective on the world we live in. That's probably been the most

worthwhile, I mean, meeting Harry and training, that was profound for me as well. There are other

things like I'm really drawn to the ocean, which kind of makes sense in the working in the biodynamic

world of fluids and tides and waves. And it's really representative of what the ocean is doing at all times

the same as what our body's doing at all times. And so the biodynamic training, basically

Warwick Schiller (01:30:35):

Speaking of the ocean, have you watched my octopus teacher?

Shea Stewart (01:30:40):

Yes. Like 10 times. I love, I love the part where the octopus is like playing with the fish where it's like

going back and forth, just moving the fish around. Actually, I love so much about that, but yeah.

Warwick Schiller (01:30:59):

Yeah. It's just such an amazing, I mean, for me, there was so much to that all the way through like even

at the start, when he, when he, you know, he goes out there every day, there's this there's that bit, then

there's the cold bit. Cause I take, I've been taking cold showers for a couple of years and I actually have a

chest freezer full of water and I take ice Barts and my ice. Bard's historically a, mostly about the same

temperature as the ocean that he swims in about 48 degrees, which for you associates the rest of the

world, that would be a bit eight degrees Celsius. And so I, you know, I spent two minutes in it and it's

you know, you've really got to focus on not going in the sympathetic nervous system. You focused on

breathing and he gets in that water and spends a lot of time in there.

Warwick Schiller (01:31:54):

And he says, after a while, you start to crave the cold. And for when I get out of that ice bath, probably

10 minutes later, your body's alive. It's just, it's just buzzing. And I just, just the other day I plugged it in

for too. Cause you got to plug it in and unplug it to keep it about the right temperature. And the other

day I left it plugged in for too long and it got down to zero degrees, Celsius, 32 Fahrenheit, and I

thought, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to try it like that. And yeah, I think the buzz after that was even

even better. But yeah, I can just imagine. So there was that cold part, you know, there was the, there

was the dedication there. They going out there every day, then there was the cold part and then you get

to the octopus and it's like, I think they're more highly evolved than we are. Wow.

Shea Stewart (01:32:43):

I know, I know.

Warwick Schiller (01:32:46):

I read a book after that. We'll listen to a book after that called the soul of an octopus. You ever

everywhere. I've seen

Shea Stewart (01:32:53):

That book. I haven't read it.

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Warwick Schiller (01:32:56):

What's interesting about that book is the subtitle. So the book's called the Sullivan octopus, but the

subtitle is a surprising exploration into the wonder of consciousness.

Shea Stewart (01:33:09):

Hmm, wow.

Warwick Schiller (01:33:12):

Yeah. So I was so glad to see that, that movie winning an Oscar. I mean, that was, that was very, very,

very, very cool. Yeah,

Shea Stewart (01:33:20):

Yeah, yeah. It was good. There's another sweet little book called what the Robin knows. The, the guy is a

naturalist, John Young.

Warwick Schiller (01:33:42):

I'm writing it down. What the Robin knows.

Shea Stewart (01:33:44):

That's a good one. Yeah. He's a naturalist basically about what birds can tell us about life. Just being out

in nature, studying.

Warwick Schiller (01:33:58):

Have you ever read the secret life of trees?

Shea Stewart (01:34:04):

You know, I think that's another book I have not read, but I'm familiar with it. It keeps popping up. Yeah.

I should write that down.

Warwick Schiller (01:34:18):

Let's write that one down. Okay. Next question is what have you changed in the past five years that has

helped shape who you've become?

Shea Stewart (01:34:48):

You know,

Warwick Schiller (01:34:49):

If you guys listening at home, I'm not putting her on the spot. She actually, she actually chose these

questions

Shea Stewart (01:34:56):

And now I'm going to go on blank because I chose them and I had all these great answers in my head

and I'm now like the spotlight's on and I got scared and they went away.

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Warwick Schiller (01:35:07):

You know, what I like about talking to you is you really think before you say something and when I, I had

Leslie Desmond on the podcast and before I had her on the podcast, I was telling him on the phone. I

said, so, you know, my son edits it afterwards. So, you know, if, you know, if you like get stuck in your

arm and arm for a while, he can just cut that out unless they said, I don't want him to cut that out. If I,

you asked me a question and I pause for 30 seconds before I answer it, I want people to understand how

much thought I gave it. I'm like, that is cool. You know, like the, and you, and you think a lot before you

answer. So I just want to enjoy it.

Shea Stewart (01:35:58):

Yeah. I do try that very methodical in my thought process.

Warwick Schiller (01:36:06):

So the question is what have you, what have you changed in the past five years that has helped shape

who you have become?

Shea Stewart (01:36:20):

Oh, I, well, if we, I have gotten better at not working myself to death. So I tend to, for people who are

self-employed, they can probably relate. You tend to take on work while it's coming, not knowing if

you're not going to have any, you know, the next week or the next month or the next year. And I tend to

take on too much, too much work. And I've gotten better at managing that and getting a better life

balance that I used to have. And I lost a little bit of that with taking on too much work. So that that's

something I've been working on the last year or so, just to try to get out of that constant work mode.

Warwick Schiller (01:37:38):

And you know, it's not just self employed. It's a certain type of self-employed, you know, it's not like a,

you're a house painter. And what you can do is you can actually go around and bid jobs and then hire

guys to paint the houses. You, you have to do the work there's, there's two of you. You can't get, you

can't have hire someone to do what you do and you oversee it. So you, it's not scalable that way. So

yeah, it is. It's like training horses. I mean, you, you know, you, you can't just, you know, hand it off to

somebody else. You were actually doing the work, like being an artist. That's your art.

Shea Stewart (01:38:16):

Yep. Yeah, totally. And yeah, it can get overwhelming. So I've gotten better at saying no. And then not

worrying so much about what people think about it.

Warwick Schiller (01:38:29):

Well, that actually that's the next question is in a, in the past five years, what have you become better at

saying no to that was the other question. Oh

Shea Stewart (01:38:40):

Yeah. Yeah. Just that. Not taking on so much and not and my biggest thing is not worrying about what

people think

Warwick Schiller (01:38:53):

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I was gonna, I was gonna say that, is it, is it the whole thing? No thing. Is it, is it trying to get a better

work-life balance or, and that's what I was going to say was, is it because you, you becoming more

comfortable with saying no and not feeling the need to like, please everybody like that. People pleasing

tendencies, but I do

Shea Stewart (01:39:17):

Chronic people. Pleasers is is a typical trauma response.

Warwick Schiller (01:39:23):

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah.

Shea Stewart (01:39:25):

So that's what I'm been working on, getting better at think about what, what do I want instead of going,

okay, what do they want?

Warwick Schiller (01:39:35):

Yeah. And if you don't give them what they want, what will they think of me? And yeah.

Shea Stewart (01:39:40):

And it's the same in the craniosacral work. It can be, you know, people are, people are very open to

trying it on their horse or even themselves not knowing anything about it. So I, I go in with this, you

know, people are used to seeing somebody do something big to make a change, like a chiropractic

adjustment or a massage. And so I show up and I think, Oh gosh, they're gonna think I'm a complete

kook because I'm just sitting here with my hands on the horse, horse's head doing nothing. What they

think might, I might be doing nothing, but, and that used to really bother me what they were going to

think. So I would do a little bit more biomechanical work just to show that I'm doing something.

Warwick Schiller (01:40:37):

I know exactly what you're saying. I think I used to do a bit of that with the clinics too. And these days

I'm at the point to where, you know, cause sometimes at those clinics I'll have, you know, a hundred

spectators and I used to feel the need to like show them something these days. That's a whole lot less

because I'm, you know, I'm getting more done doing a whole lot less than I used to do, doing a whole lot

more. And so, yeah, I think I'm getting better about that. What a fascinating conversation. Thank you so

much for joining me on the podcast. So people want to contact, you learn more about you, maybe get

you to do some work. How do they, how do they find all things? Shay Stewart?

Shea Stewart (01:41:24):

Well, probably my website. I haven't really, I created that website about 10 years ago and I haven't

changed a whole lot, so I need to go back in there and make sure it's still reflective

Warwick Schiller (01:41:43):

Equine, balanced.net. Yes. Equine balanced.net. Okay. What about social media? You do much on social

media.

Shea Stewart (01:41:52):

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I try to stay off of it. It can really become a time suck. And my time is, is precious. I'm trying to spend it in

different ways right now. I do check it. I do go on sometimes I'll, I'll post things that I find interesting or

Warwick Schiller (01:42:16):

Relevant

Shea Stewart (01:42:18):

On my Facebook page. It's just my personal, I do have a business Facebook page, but I'm terrible about

going in there and doing, I don't even know how to read the messages that come in through there, but I

think I've figured it out. But

Warwick Schiller (01:42:36):

So if you're sharing stuff on Facebook, I think that that'd be a lot of, you know, if you feel like it's worth

sharing, I think there'd be a lot of people who'd be interested in to know what you are sharing. So that's,

that's just on your personal wall.

Shea Stewart (01:42:51):

Yes. And, and lately I've been trying to also share it on my business page.

Warwick Schiller (01:42:57):

And what's your business page called?

Shea Stewart (01:43:00):

I knew you were about to ask that. Let me look real quick. Sorry. I

Warwick Schiller (01:43:10):

Equine balance craniosacral. That's what it's called acorn balanced craniosacral. Okay. So yes. So the

website is equine balanced.net and the social media page would be equine balanced craniosacral.

Shea Stewart (01:43:32):

Yes. Or just my name friend panel.

Warwick Schiller (01:43:38):

Well, I can probably follow you, I think. Can they follow you?

Shea Stewart (01:43:43):

Yeah, I think, I don't know, set where you can follow somebody but not be friends with them. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I don't know if you can do that. I think you have

Warwick Schiller (01:43:52):

To have a public. I don't know. That's mines like that because, but yeah. That's how they can find you. So

thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I, you know what, it turned out better than I thought

it would use. Story was fascinating and old at all. Came back to what I was trying to get to at the

beginning of the whole thing was how does someone get to that point? And you've had so many

This transcript was exported on May 07, 2021 - view latest version here.

Episode #39 Shea Stewart (Completed 05/07/21)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 29 of 29

experiences in your life that we're all leading, leading to this point. I just can't wait to see where it takes

you from here on out in the next 10 years, because I don't think you finished. I don't think you finished

your journey at all. I don't think you're stagnant. I think you I don't know where you're heading, but I

want to see where it is. Well, thank you so much for having me. It was, I enjoyed it. I just hope it was

interesting. It was interesting. And you guys listening at home, thanks so much for joining us. I'm sure

you got as much out of that as I did, and we will catch you on the next episode of the genuine

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):

Podcast. Thanks for listening to the journey on podcast with work Schiller Warrick has over 650 full

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